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<DIV><EM><FONT color=#000000 size=2>Again, I have been using PMB to daytrade for
over a month and am just as happy as bill. For those who are unhappy with
Lwo, or Zap, etc, you owe it to yourself to check out PMB.</FONT></EM></DIV>
<DIV><EM><FONT color=#000000 size=2></FONT></EM> </DIV>
<DIV><EM><FONT size=2>Gary</FONT></EM></DIV>
<DIV><EM><FONT size=2></FONT></EM> </DIV>
<DIV><EM><FONT size=2>P.S> Again, no affiliation whatsoever with
PMB!</FONT></EM></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><B>-----Original Message-----</B><BR><B>From:
</B>bshumake <<A
href="mailto:bshumake@xxxxxxxxxxxx";>bshumake@xxxxxxxxxxxx</A>><BR><B>To:
</B>RealTraders Discussion Group <<A
href="mailto:realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx";>realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx</A>><BR><B>Date:
</B>Thursday, November 12, 1998 4:13 AM<BR><B>Subject: </B>Electronic
Trading<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 face="Arial Rounded MT Bold">Report on PMB
electronic trading:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 face="Arial Rounded MT Bold"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 face="Arial Rounded MT Bold">For those interested
in internet/electronic trading of futures, I can report that I have had very
good results using TimberHill through PMB. I have been day trading the
S&P with PMB for about 3 weeks now and am very pleased. The market
order fills are very fast, on the order of 10 seconds or so. The
reports are back in around 30 seconds most of the time. Reports on
stop order are longer, usually a couple of minutes. They have recently
added "action buttons" for market orders. These buttons
allow you to program how many contracts you wish your market orders to be
for, once programmed, all you have to do is hit one button to buy at market
and another button to sell at market. Reprogramming the buttons for
different quantities of contracts takes under a minute. Once programmed for
a specific number of contracts, the buttons maintain that quantity until
reprogrammed or until you log off the system at which time they reset to
zero. These have proven to be a very nice feature.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 face="Arial Rounded MT Bold"></FONT><FONT
face="Arial Rounded MT Bold">I would also add that the system has not been
down even once since I began using it three weeks ago.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 face="Arial Rounded MT Bold"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 face="Arial Rounded MT Bold">This is my first
experience with electronic futures trading and it was a bit unnerving to not
speak with a person when I first began. I felt uneasy, wondering if my
orders had made it to the floor. Now that I am used to it, I think it
is very nice way to trade, especially short term intra day trades.
Hope this has been helpful to those contemplating electronic order
placement.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 face="Arial Rounded MT Bold"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 face="Arial Rounded MT Bold">All the
Best!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 face="Arial Rounded MT Bold">Bill
Shumake</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
</x-html>From ???@??? Thu Nov 12 07:26:27 1998
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Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 06:55:10 -0700
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From: "Earl Adamy" <eadamy@xxxxxxxxxx>
To: RealTraders Discussion Group <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Electronic Trading
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<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2>Thanks for the update. I've always preferred
electronic trading to placing orders through human beings. Virtually instant
execution and fill reporting via internet based broker software was routine on
NYSE trades. When I made the transition from stocks to futures, I was amazed to
find that electronic trading was virtually non-existent and went back to placing
orders by phone. While some traders find the interaction with a broker useful in
obtaining information, I want no part of it. It exposes me to distractions and
irritations ranging from waiting for a phone to be answered to the broker's
mood, which I simply do not want or need. I much prefer watching my charts with
order ready to fire and having to do nothing more than hit the "Send"
button to fire it into the market.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2>However, confidence in the electronic trading
system is critical because one must know with certainty that one can get in or
out of the market. It's taken me a lot of research and digging to make some
sense of the electronic systems currently available. My research indicates that
there are two electronic order backbones available to futures traders: TOPS/CUBS
and TimberHill. </FONT><FONT color=#000000 size=2>The various brokerage firms
front-end these backbones with proprietary software.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2>The LeoWeb software (and I believe
Lind-Waldock's LOL and Jack-Carl's ETC) is a front-end to TOPS/CUBS. There may
be others which front-end the TOPS/CUBS system. TOPS is an order-routing system
which connects to the various exchanges, Globex, ProjectA, etc. while CUBS is a
terminal through which fills are entered _manually_ by a fill clerk after the
order has been executed by the broker in the pits. In short, the CUBS/TOPS
system is fully automated only for electronic trading (Globex, ProjectA, etc.)
and not for pit trading. In the S&P pits, there are only 2 CUBS terminals
permitted for entry of fills - one for LFG and one for Lind-Waldock. Obviously,
on heavy trading days the 2 clerks get backed up and fill reports are delayed.
When portions of the system are down, orders are routed to brokers who send the
orders into the pits the old fashioned way. Many of use who use the LeoWeb
system (marketed through LFG, ZAP, TradeCenter, and many IB's) have found it to
work well when it works, but subject to problems with exchange systems and
software. The single biggest weak link with TOPS/CUBS has been the CUBS system
which will reportedly be replaced by CUBS2 this winter allowing more terminals
in the pits and providing more reliable operation.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2>PMB, PMBe, FTG, IB and other firms use the
TimberHill backbone which is proprietary and independent of exchange software.
TH brokers in most of the heavily traded commodities are equipped with hand-held
units which display the order book and into which they enter their executions.
>From all recent reports, the TimberHill system seems to be quite reliable and
seems to enjoys an excellent reputation. The pure TH software (referred to as
Interactive Broker Workstation is available by lease only for $900/month through
approved FCM's - Refco and EDF Mann are primary, although there are others.
Several retail discount firms, including PMB and FTG, have built front-ends
which allow them to execute through the TH system. Customer orders flow into
computers handling the proprietary front-end and are then routed in to the TH
system and back to the proprietary system. FTG reportedly backs up the TH system
with access to TOPS/CUBS - appears to be a case of backing up a roadster with a
donkey. The IB division of TH allows use of the IBW software without lease,
however it is limited to execution of e-mini orders only.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>There's an awful lot of broker hype about electronic order
entry, but damn little real information. You generally will not find the
specifics of how a system routes orders or its limitations on a broker's web
pages or sales material. Obviously, the objective in electronic trading is
reducing slippage. Some brokers are charging a premium (e.g. LFG charges $4 for
use of LeoWeb, TH charges $900 to lease IBW) for using their electronic system,
however there is no pay-off if the electronic system does not reduce slippage.
That's about all I think I know. I'm certainly receptive to correction and, even
better, more light.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Earl</FONT></DIV>
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<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><B>-----Original
Message-----</B><BR><B>From: </B>bshumake <<A
href="mailto:bshumake@xxxxxxxxxxxx";>bshumake@xxxxxxxxxxxx</A>><BR><B>To:
</B>RealTraders Discussion Group <<A
href="mailto:realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx";>realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx</A>><BR><B>Date:
</B>Wednesday, November 11, 1998 10:03 PM<BR><B>Subject: </B>Electronic
Trading<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 face="Arial Rounded MT Bold">Report on PMB
electronic trading:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000
face="Arial Rounded MT Bold"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 face="Arial Rounded MT Bold">For those
interested in internet/electronic trading of futures, I can report that
I have had very good results using TimberHill through PMB. I have
been day trading the S&P with PMB for about 3 weeks now and am very
pleased. The market order fills are very fast, on the order of 10
seconds or so. The reports are back in around 30 seconds most of
the time. Reports on stop order are longer, usually a couple of
minutes. They have recently added "action buttons" for
market orders. These buttons allow you to program how many
contracts you wish your market orders to be for, once programmed, all
you have to do is hit one button to buy at market and another button to
sell at market. Reprogramming the buttons for different quantities
of contracts takes under a minute. Once programmed for a specific number
of contracts, the buttons maintain that quantity until reprogrammed or
until you log off the system at which time they reset to zero.
These have proven to be a very nice feature.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 face="Arial Rounded MT Bold"></FONT><FONT
face="Arial Rounded MT Bold">I would also add that the system has not
been down even once since I began using it three weeks ago.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000
face="Arial Rounded MT Bold"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 face="Arial Rounded MT Bold">This is my first
experience with electronic futures trading and it was a bit unnerving to
not speak with a person when I first began. I felt uneasy,
wondering if my orders had made it to the floor. Now that I am
used to it, I think it is very nice way to trade, especially short term
intra day trades. Hope this has been helpful to those
contemplating electronic order placement.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000
face="Arial Rounded MT Bold"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 face="Arial Rounded MT Bold">All the
Best!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 face="Arial Rounded MT Bold">Bill
Shumake</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
</x-html>From ???@??? Thu Nov 12 08:54:26 1998
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Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 10:34:42 -0600
Reply-To: gmkramer@xxxxxxxxxxxx
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From: "Gary Kramer" <gmkramer@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: RealTraders Discussion Group <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: PMB
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<DIV><EM><FONT color=#000000 size=2>Here I am again touting the benefits of
PMB! It really is nice when I cancel an order to get immediate
confirmation that the order is gone!!</FONT></EM></DIV>
<DIV><EM><FONT color=#000000 size=2></FONT></EM> </DIV>
<DIV><EM><FONT color=#000000 size=2></FONT></EM> </DIV>
<DIV><EM><FONT color=#000000 size=2><BR>Gary
Kramer<BR></FONT></EM></DIV></BODY></HTML>
</x-html>From ???@??? Thu Nov 12 09:48:40 1998
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Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 10:38:32 -0700
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Sender: owner-realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
From: gary bodnar <gbodnar@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: RealTraders Discussion Group <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: RE: Nov.12 1998 Dow Swing chart
X-To: "'gbodnar@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx'" <gbodnar@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
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Based on 10 min data from Oct.21 to present..
http://xeno.licensed.com/clyde/forecasts/images/nov12dow.gif
May the good fortune smile upon on one of us today..
Gary
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