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<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2>Hi again Harley, </FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2>I don't know if you've ever had the
</FONT></FONT><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2>opportunity to trade a LAN-based
real-time setup, but the "response" of the system tells you so much
more about the tone of the market than the PC Quote internet based system, it's
just ridiculous. </FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2>It's "apples and oranges" Harley.
You don't realize how slow and innaccurate the PCQ internet system is, because
you don't have a reference to compare. </FONT></FONT><FONT size=2></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2></FONT></FONT><FONT
size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2>Also, the tech support there is
laughable........nobody trades ! They can't<BR>tell you why the system doesn't
work, because they don't know what it's<BR>supposed to do. ( And yes, the huge
down days were slow on all data<BR>providers, but the PCQ update speed varies
every single day.) You can't tell<BR>if the futures or the NDX or the bonds are
leading the market, because<BR>again........it's not real
time.</FONT></FONT><FONT size=2></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2></FONT></FONT><FONT
size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2>I've spent a good deal of money finding that
out, Harley. And when they say,<BR>"Well it's your ISP." Or,
"Well, it's the internet traffic". Or, "It's your<BR>computer or
modem" Or, "All the data providers are slow today"........I
say,<BR>"Baloney".</FONT></FONT><FONT size=2></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2></FONT></FONT><FONT
size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2>It's because I've learned my PC Quote lesson
the hard way...by paying the<BR>money and spending the time, and finding out
they just don't know any<BR>better.<BR>When you start trading in greater size,
Harley, I think you'll find the<BR>psychogical pressure to be on a technological
equal with the greater market<BR>will drive you to the same conclusion.......I
had just hoped to spare you<BR>the cost of learning the hard
way.</FONT></FONT><FONT size=2></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2></FONT></FONT><FONT
size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 face=Arial size=2>Thanks for note and the offer of the
DDE linking explanations.......I *would* like to learn more about linking
spreadsheets to other applications, but that's a different subject.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Happy Holidays to you and yours,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2>Dick<BR></FONT></FONT><FONT
size=2></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=3><FONT size=2>P.S. In re-reading this note, it
sounds like I'm being more negative than I really am......please don't take this
note wrong Harley. In this "age of information" it's amazing how
hard-won even the smallest piece of really useful information is to come by.
Caveat Emptor.</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>>Hello Dick,<BR>>I am glad you made this post. I had typed up a reply
earlier and<BR>>Netscape Crashed so I will make a few brief
comments.<BR>><BR>>I think the server farm helps with reliable connection
to PCQuote<BR>>service and has nothing to do with the ability to handle heavy
volume<BR>>days on the exchange.<BR>><BR>>You can use the ticker with
the inside market and the regionals to have<BR>>almost Level II for
free.<BR>><BR>>Yes I agree that under heavy volume days the quotes fall
behind. But<BR>>everybody else does too. This is a technology problem that I
hope<BR>>somebody will solve someday.<BR>><BR>>I also am keeping things
in perspective. If 95% of the days PCQuote<BR>>provides great performance I
am not going to complain about the other 5%<BR>>of the times. I pay $75/month
for a RT data provider which is better<BR>>than Signal and several others. If
PCQuote is having trouble on a heavy<BR>>volume day, so are the other
vendors. So try to keep things in<BR>>perspective. How many professional
brokers were there that couldn't even<BR>>get a quote in our last mini crash.
Many of them-let alone make a trade<BR>>for their clients. We are on the fore
front of technology and can't<BR>>expect vendors to do what we want until the
technology catches up.<BR>>I too have talked to technical support,
development, at PCQuote and they<BR>>said that the packets do get sent out.
If they get lost it is our<BR>>problem. On a busy day check the messages in
you MSG app. It will say<BR>>things like data backed up, dumping buffer, etc.
SO again this isn't the<BR>>fault of the vendor. For me it goes back to
technology (not<BR>>computers-but modems speeds,
bandwidth,etc).<BR>><BR>>Also look at what you pay a month for data
compared to me. Subtract the<BR>>difference and see if those few days where
volume slows things down and<BR>>you can't trade is more or less than the
amount of money you might make<BR>>or lose in the market those few
days.<BR>><BR>>I have found that the quote window is almost identical to
Datek on a<BR>>normal day for giving bid and ask. The regionals can be a bit
slower.<BR>>The ticker window with the last price and volume helps me and
pretty<BR>>much keeps up on heavy volume days. (too a point.) This will give
me<BR>>direction-heck with the bid and ask. I think the big thing is to build
a<BR>>system of in-expensive backups. Aside from the charts in Excel, the
DDE<BR>>link can be to another server. Different from the one that PCQuote
real<BR>>time uses. Hence another backup.<BR>><BR>>Yes CNBC is faster
on the market indexes. But I am more concerned about<BR>>the general
direction. Most stocks don't turn on a dime if the DJIA or<BR>>NASDAQ pulls
back. Most traders are trained to wait until some trigger<BR>>occurs. SO the
small delay is irrelevant since it might look like the<BR>>top or the bottom
for me but in actuality the market movers were waiting<BR>>for another
signal. Big deal I am looking for patterns and how my stock<BR>>reacts to the
major indices. (Note I am charting the indexes with the<BR>>DDE link to
Excel.)<BR>>The big thing that Excel gives me is the ability to use the data
(market<BR>>breadth & indexes) on another computer that is networked.
Because the<BR>>file is saved it is slightly delayed by 20 seconds plus
whatever delay<BR>>there is from CNBC.<BR>><BR>>I don't play options so
I can't comment on them. But what it sounds like<BR>>you really need is a
good inexpensive backup to get option quotes. Even<BR>>your broker should be
able to give a current quote prior to your order.<BR>>(Like I use Datek, if
all else fails.)<BR>>Another option would be to use Excel to bring in the
option prices and<BR>>then do some experimenting to see if that might
help.<BR>><BR>>Dick if you plan to keep PCQuote, I am willing to try to
share ideas<BR>>about how to create backups for some of the problems we run
into. If you<BR>>also think you would use Excel DDE link, I'd be willing to
send you some<BR>>files.<BR>>I will admit that Excel isn't the best. But I
am patiently waiting for<BR>>MS RT and hoping that PCQuote will be a
vendor.<BR>><BR>>Again with proper backups and keeping thing in
perspective I think<BR>>PCQuote is the best around for the $75/month. I have
seen an improvement<BR>>in their service and they have improved their
customer service. For me,<BR>>as long as they continue to make an effort to
make improvements in their<BR>>service, they are worth staying loyal
to.<BR>><BR>>Well I had better go.<BR>>Again thanks for sending the
post. What ever you decide to do I hope you<BR>>get the problem resolved. It
is annoying.<BR>><BR>>Harley<BR>><BR>>Dick
wrote:<BR>><BR>>> Hi Harley,<BR>>><BR>>> I've had PC Quotes
for about a year now, and it's worked great during<BR>>> the<BR>>>
"bull" months (of course, it's not really need when everything's
going<BR>>><BR>>> up)...The increasing market volume has really
magnified it's bandwidth<BR>>><BR>>> weakness though, and although
we've been given those little e-mail<BR>>> assurances that the server farm
is up and running, the times when you<BR>>> need<BR>>> accurate
quotes the most, finds the data feed sadly lacking.<BR>>><BR>>> (I'm
going to explain a little more, because this is probably a topic<BR>>>
of<BR>>> interest to more than a few here, and I can probably save them
money<BR>>> by<BR>>> relating my missteps through the real-time data
minefield. <g>)<BR>>><BR>>> As you know, the least risky time
to enter a buy order on a big down<BR>>> day is<BR>>> at the first
big "trough" when the panic (read: volume) peaks as the<BR>>>
price<BR>>> gaps down at the open. This usually occurs during the first
30-45<BR>>> minutes of<BR>>> the trading day, and if you enable the
S&P futures ($55 extra exchange<BR>>> fee)<BR>>> it usually
gives you the leading edge of market direction. (I don't<BR>>> like
to<BR>>> use the PREM or $sps (S&P futures premium to the cash market)
alone,<BR>>> because<BR>>> it only gives you the static picture, and
doesn't show the "speed" of<BR>>> the<BR>>> peaks and
valleys like the chart does.) But at the bottom (heaviest<BR>>>
volume)<BR>>> the feed slows due the bandwidth, and you had better not
depend on it<BR>>> for<BR>>> timing buys.<BR>>><BR>>> If
you enable Nasdaq Level 2 ($50 pc quote/$50 exchange fee) you can<BR>>>
see the<BR>>> size and depth of the inside market, as well as the identity
of the<BR>>> sellers/buyers. This is very useful too, IF it all works and
you get<BR>>> the<BR>>> information promptly and in the right
order.<BR>>><BR>>> Now the problem.......PC Quote Nasdaq L2 is
frequently *behind* the<BR>>> time and<BR>>> sales list ! And as
you've probably noticed, the PCQ version of the<BR>>> Dow,<BR>>>
S&P, and Nasdaq figures shown on CNBC are several seconds behind,
even<BR>>> on a<BR>>> LIGHT trading day.<BR>>><BR>>> I
can't tell you how many times I've place limit orders on Philly<BR>>>
exchange<BR>>> options (i.e. Dell calls/puts) and not gotten filled,
simply because<BR>>> the<BR>>> darnnit PCQ turbo options ($50 extra)
is dragging the market too. How<BR>>> do I<BR>>> know ? The broker I
used to use for options would put me hold while<BR>>> placing<BR>>>
the order, and they had a live mike on the floor (for on-hold<BR>>>
customers<BR>>> entertainment I guess <g>). Even though I'd place a
limit at the<BR>>> "natural"<BR>>> bid or ask, I still
wouldn't get filled because the prices had moved<BR>>> so far<BR>>>
while the PCQ version of it was waaayyyyyyyy off, even on lighter
days<BR>>> !<BR>>><BR>>> And the reason I mention the Philly
exchange in particular, is that<BR>>> it's<BR>>> suicide to place a
market order on the Philly, unless you like paying<BR>>> the<BR>>>
highest price printed that DAY........guaranteed ! I eventually went<BR>>>
to<BR>>> placing RAES market orders on the other exchanges, but the
turbo<BR>>> options<BR>>> package is anything but
"turbo".<BR>>><BR>>> I naturally have called PCQ tech
support, and inquired what the<BR>>> problem<BR>>> might be, and
they told me it was my internet connection or<BR>>>
computer..........Soooooo, after a blindingly dull sampling of every<BR>>>
ISP<BR>>> available, I finally got cable modem, and after wondering if
my<BR>>> Pentium 133<BR>>> was the bottleneck, I finally bought a
Pentium II 300 with AGP<BR>>> graphics and<BR>>> 128 meg (as
discussed earlier this year)<BR>>><BR>>> Nope. That wasn't the
problem. It's still slow to update.<BR>>><BR>>> (Just for reference,
I downloaded the 13+ meg MS Internet Explorer 4<BR>>> update<BR>>>
yesterday from the MS Redmond Washington high bandwith site, in<BR>>>
........ahem.......6 minutes ?) I don't think my ISP is the
problem.<BR>>><BR>>> Sorry about the long post, but I think it's
important to realize that<BR>>> a lot<BR>>> of the up and down
intraday swings in recent months are generated by<BR>>> notoriously fickle
momentum players and to be "late" is to be
"dead",<BR>>> if you<BR>>> catch my
drift.<BR>>><BR>>> BTW, Datek executions are MUCH faster with cable
modem.........like<BR>>> you<BR>>> said, they seem to get real time
quotes out faster than PCQ........I'm<BR>>> not<BR>>> sure I can get
DTN or BMI out here (because they strip data on local<BR>>>
cable<BR>>> channels) but I think I'm going to go without the Nasdaq L2
(which<BR>>> they<BR>>> don't offer) and just get the fastest prices
I can find.<BR>>><BR>>> Dick<BR>>><BR>>> PS. The Excel
DDE linking is slower than the Real Tick III<BR>>>
charting.....I<BR>>> don't know if short-term matters to you, but I try to
keep the saying<BR>>> in<BR>>> mind, "Sell when you can, not
when you have to."<BR>>> On a down day, I can usually break even or
even show a small profit by<BR>>><BR>>> buying at the right place on
the troughs and being ready to sell at<BR>>> the<BR>>> peaks. If it
turns out to be a turnaround day (like yesterday) you can<BR>>>
do<BR>>> pretty well if you correctly judge the capitulation point (like
-269<BR>>> <g>)<BR>>> and buy into the mess.<BR>>> But
for that, you need REAL real-time data.<BR>>><BR>>> From: Harley
Meyer <<A
href="mailto:meyer@xxxxxxxxxxx";>meyer@xxxxxxxxxxx</A>><BR>>> To: Dick
<dick@xxxxxxxxxxxxx><BR>>>
Cc: <A
href="mailto:metastock-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx";>metastock-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx</A>
<<A
href="mailto:metastock-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx";>metastock-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx</A>><BR>>>
Date: Friday, December 19, 1997 9:47 PM<BR>>> Subject: Re: Downloader
Question<BR>>><BR>>> >Hello Dick,<BR>>> ><BR>>>
>I too have PCQuote and I have felt that they are actually
getting<BR>>> >better. Now that they have the server farm. I however in
my infinite<BR>>> >wisdom have chosen the $75/month service. I can do
more in Excel than<BR>>><BR>>> >what I could do with the canned
charting program they offer for<BR>>> >$200+/month.<BR>>> >As
far as the quotes they do get backed up some times. If it gets<BR>>>
real<BR>>> >bad I'll check the quotes on Datek. Since Datek is very
good when it<BR>>> >comes to the big volume days I have a good free
backup. But for the<BR>>> most<BR>>> >part I have felt that they
are making improvements in this area as<BR>>> well.<BR>>>
><BR>>> >Some areas that can add to this problem is how far off the
internet<BR>>> back<BR>>> >bone you are. The others are phone
line quality, modem speed, memory<BR>>> and<BR>>>
>CPU.<BR>>> ><BR>>> >Not to turn this into a debate about
PCQuote. My guess is that since<BR>>> you<BR>>> >are paying for
the top service you are expecting better service.<BR>>> While<BR>>>
>me paying for the $75/month service I am a little more tolerant.
For<BR>>> >$75/month it is probable the best service. And you know (I
hope you<BR>>> >know) that it is faster than Signal and a few other
ones out in the<BR>>> >market.<BR>>> ><BR>>> >Sorry
to hear you are having trouble and I hope you get them worked<BR>>>
out.<BR>>> ><BR>>> >Harley<BR>>> ><BR>>>
><BR>>> >Dick wrote:<BR>>> ><BR>>> >> Richard,
do you use the paid real-time version of quotes plus, or<BR>>>
do<BR>>> >> you<BR>>> >> just use the free version on
the web ? I've got PC Quote via the<BR>>> >> internet<BR>>>
>> (because the satellite footprint doesn't extend out here, but
it's<BR>>> NOT<BR>>> >> real<BR>>> >> time, even
though it costs 3-400/month. In fact, I wouldn't<BR>>>
recommend<BR>>> >> PC<BR>>> >> Quote internet to my
worst enemy, even if I had one !<g><BR>>> >><BR>>>
>> On heavy volume days like today, it is suicide to trade the PC
Q<BR>>> >> internet<BR>>> >> version data (it literally
stopped dead today at the bottom)<BR>>> >><BR>>> >> Does
anyone have a more robust real-time system that costs<BR>>>
something<BR>>> >> south<BR>>> >> of a bloomberg machine
?<BR>>> >><BR>>> >> Dick<BR>>> >>
-----Original Message-----<BR>>> >> From: Richard Estes <<A
href="mailto:restes@xxxxxxxxx";>restes@xxxxxxxxx</A>><BR>>> >> To:
vitaly@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <<A
href="mailto:vitaly@xxxxxxxxxxxxx";>vitaly@xxxxxxxxxxxxx</A>>;<BR>>> <A
href="mailto:chipa@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx";>chipa@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx</A><BR>>>
>><BR>>> >> <<A
href="mailto:chipa@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx";>chipa@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx</A>><BR>>>
>> Cc: <A
href="mailto:metastock-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx";>metastock-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx</A>
<<A
href="mailto:metastock-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx";>metastock-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx</A>><BR>>>
>> Date: Friday, December 19, 1997 9:10 AM<BR>>> >> Subject:
Re: Downloader Question<BR>>> >><BR>>> >> >Quote plus
and TC2000 PRO<BR>>> >> >Richard Estes<BR>>> >>
>-----Original Message-----<BR>>> >> >From: Vitaly Larichev
<<A
href="mailto:vitaly@xxxxxxxxxxxxx";>vitaly@xxxxxxxxxxxxx</A>><BR>>>
>> >To: <A
href="mailto:chipa@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx";>chipa@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx</A> <<A
href="mailto:chipa@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx";>chipa@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx</A>><BR>>>
>> >Cc: <A
href="mailto:metastock-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx";>metastock-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx</A>
<<A
href="mailto:metastock-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx";>metastock-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx</A>><BR>>>
>> >Date: Friday, December 19, 1997 11:59 AM<BR>>> >>
>Subject: Re: Downloader Question<BR>>> >> ><BR>>>
>> ><BR>>> >> >>Chip Anderson wrote:<BR>>>
>> >><BR>>> >> >>> ... Does anyone else use a
data provider that automatically<BR>>> >> updates<BR>>>
>> >>> symbols for them? ...<BR>>> >>
>><BR>>> >> >>QPlus.<BR>>> >> >>
Cheers, Vitaly<BR>>> >> >><BR>>> >>
><BR>>> ><BR>>> ><BR>>>
><BR>><BR>><BR>></DIV></BODY></HTML>
</x-html>From ???@??? Wed Dec 24 08:47:06 1997
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Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 21:13:36 -0500
To: metastock-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
From: "Frank B. Gaylord" <fbg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Exploration for Metastock 6.5
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At 02:28 PM 12/23/97 , you wrote: <br>
<blockquote type=cite cite>Does anyone know what new exploration are
available for MS 6.5? Or know where I can find some? The Equis site
does not seems to have any. <br>
<br>
Also, somebody told me to use the newer version of Technifilter instead
of the explorer on MS. Can anyone tell me what differences exist between
the two, and provide some comments. Is Technifilter a better program to
filter stocks? I would greatly appreciate any comments provided...
<br>
<br>
<div align="center">
********************************************* <br>
Have a nice Day <br>
Jim Kerwin <br>
Atlanta,Georgia <br>
<http://www.mindspring.com/~anncora/index.htm>
<br>
</div>
********************************************** <br>
<br>
</blockquote> ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::<br>
<br>
Jim -<br>
<br>
I prefer TechniFilter Plus 7.1 (the older DOS version; I do not
yet have the newer Windows version) over The Explorer in MetaStock 6.5
because it is so efficient in calculating single or multiple, nested or
not nested filters, automatically or manually. I've used this and
earlier versions of TechniFilter from the early days, when EQUIS
International sold it, before some of what TechniFilter did was
incorporated in MetaStock as The Explorer. It seems to me that The
Explorer has lagged behind TechniFilter in power and ease of use.<br>
<br>
I see no reason that EQUIS International cannot build The Explorer into
a filtering entity that rivals TechniFilter Plus if MetaStock users and
other Technical Analysis folks tell them that we what List-building
capabilities, nesting capabilities, Trendline generation and automation
to name a few, all in a module that calculates about twice as fast as it
does now (it takes The Explorer just under twice as long as TechniFilter
Plus 7.1 to calculate basically the same filter; also remember that
TechniFilter Plus 7.1 is DOS, which, I assume, is inherently faster than
the Windows 95 and NT MetaStock 6.5 The Explorer, so this comparison may
not be apple and apples, but rather apples and oranges).<br>
<br>
Please understand I believe that MetaStock 6.5's The Explorer can and
does get the job done to the user's profit and that I wish to see it do
so more efficiently.
<BR>
<br>
<div>-- Frank :-)</div>
<br>
<div>High Return on Investment using Technical Analysis</div>
<div>http://www.usinternet.com/users/fbg/</div>
<div>Minnesota Long Distance Canoe Racing</div>
<div>http://www.usinternet.com/users/fbg/mnlong/</div>
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</x-html>From ???@??? Wed Dec 24 08:47:11 1997
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From: Harley Meyer <meyer@xxxxxxxxxxx>
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Hello Dick,
<BR>I have never traded on a LAN based real-time system. So I don't have
anything to compare it with except the some of the other junk that is out
there, Signal and ???
<BR>Maybe it is good to be naive about some things, like PCQuote being
slow. For the average joe like me it is a good deal.
<P>I agree that technical support consists of trained personal to answer
the FAQs. Not a great deal of depth. But they do do a good job with the
FAQs.
<BR>As far a psychological pressure it is still relative. If I take too
big of a trade the pressure is there and I can make a bad decision based
upon placing too much money in one trade. I am sure you are talking about
something completely different but I can relate to what you are saying.
<P>I think out of fairness to PCQuote and the individuals who are reading
this we both need to be specific about what is good and bad about PCQuote
as a RT data vendor. You have already commented that the Turbo Option service
is slow and you are just mentioning Bonds. We both agreed that CNBC is
faster on the major market indexes.
<P>But for me the good thing about PCQuote real time is that 90% of the
time, the stock quotes are timely. Real time? I don't know, but it is just
as accurate as Datek and Datek is pretty good. I can place my trades based
upon the quotes and they can get filled. It does have it's problems at
times but I have been able to work around them. Or I will take things in
perspective that I am paying $75/month. Their service is improving and
their customer service has also improved. To me that counts for something.
<P>My style of trading is position trading with some day trading if I see
an opportunity. So the speed of the broader market isn't all that important
since my time frame of a trade can last several days to weeks.
<P>If you don't mind would you write a short brief paragraph to recap the
the problems with PCQuote and tell us about your style of trading. We both
run into many people. When asked or the subject comes up, I always speak
well of PCQuote. But if PCQuote isn't right for a particular style or type
of trading I wouldn't want to steer someone in the wrong direction.
<P>I actually am reading a certain level of anger and frustration, not
being negative. You have every right to vent every now and then about problems
like these. I learned from it. I am sure that others have learned as well.
I hope you'll indulge us briefly one more time.
<P>I hope that you get something figured out for your data provider.
<P>I hope that 1998 is good to you.
<P>Harley
<P>Dick wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE> <FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT SIZE=-1>Hi again Harley,</FONT></FONT> <FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT SIZE=-1>I
don't know if you've ever had the opportunity to trade a LAN-based real-time
setup, but the "response" of the system tells you so much more about the
tone of the market than the PC Quote internet based system, it's just ridiculous.</FONT></FONT> <FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT SIZE=-1>It's
"apples and oranges" Harley. You don't realize how slow and innaccurate
the PCQ internet system is, because you don't have a reference to compare.</FONT></FONT> <FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT SIZE=-1>Also,
the tech support there is laughable........nobody trades ! They can't</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT SIZE=-1>tell you why the system doesn't work,
because they don't know what it's</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT SIZE=-1>supposed to do. ( And yes, the huge
down days were slow on all data</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT SIZE=-1>providers, but the PCQ update speed
varies every single day.) You can't tell</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT SIZE=-1>if the futures or the NDX or the bonds
are leading the market, because</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT SIZE=-1>again........it's not real time.</FONT></FONT> <FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT SIZE=-1>I've
spent a good deal of money finding that out, Harley. And when they say,</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT SIZE=-1>"Well it's your ISP." Or, "Well, it's
the internet traffic". Or, "It's your</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT SIZE=-1>computer or modem" Or, "All the data
providers are slow today"........I say,</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT SIZE=-1>"Baloney".</FONT></FONT> <FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT SIZE=-1>It's
because I've learned my PC Quote lesson the hard way...by paying the</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT SIZE=-1>money and spending the time, and finding
out they just don't know any</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT SIZE=-1>better.</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT SIZE=-1>When you start trading in greater
size, Harley, I think you'll find the</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT SIZE=-1>psychogical pressure to be on a technological
equal with the greater market</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT SIZE=-1>will drive you to the same conclusion.......I
had just hoped to spare you</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT SIZE=-1>the cost of learning the hard way.</FONT></FONT> <FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>Thanks
for note and the offer of the DDE linking explanations.......I *would*
like to learn more about linking spreadsheets to other applications, but
that's a different subject.</FONT></FONT></FONT> <FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT SIZE=-1>Happy
Holidays to you and yours,</FONT></FONT> <FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT SIZE=-1>Dick</FONT></FONT><FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT SIZE=-1>P.S.
In re-reading this note, it sounds like I'm being more negative than I
really am......please don't take this note wrong Harley. In this "age of
information" it's amazing how hard-won even the smallest piece of really
useful information is to come by. Caveat Emptor.</FONT></FONT> >Hello
Dick,
<BR>>I am glad you made this post. I had typed up a reply earlier and
<BR>>Netscape Crashed so I will make a few brief comments.
<BR>>
<BR>>I think the server farm helps with reliable connection to PCQuote
<BR>>service and has nothing to do with the ability to handle heavy volume
<BR>>days on the exchange.
<BR>>
<BR>>You can use the ticker with the inside market and the regionals to
have
<BR>>almost Level II for free.
<BR>>
<BR>>Yes I agree that under heavy volume days the quotes fall behind. But
<BR>>everybody else does too. This is a technology problem that I hope
<BR>>somebody will solve someday.
<BR>>
<BR>>I also am keeping things in perspective. If 95% of the days PCQuote
<BR>>provides great performance I am not going to complain about the other
5%
<BR>>of the times. I pay $75/month for a RT data provider which is better
<BR>>than Signal and several others. If PCQuote is having trouble on a
heavy
<BR>>volume day, so are the other vendors. So try to keep things in
<BR>>perspective. How many professional brokers were there that couldn't
even
<BR>>get a quote in our last mini crash. Many of them-let alone make a
trade
<BR>>for their clients. We are on the fore front of technology and can't
<BR>>expect vendors to do what we want until the technology catches up.
<BR>>I too have talked to technical support, development, at PCQuote and
they
<BR>>said that the packets do get sent out. If they get lost it is our
<BR>>problem. On a busy day check the messages in you MSG app. It will
say
<BR>>things like data backed up, dumping buffer, etc. SO again this isn't
the
<BR>>fault of the vendor. For me it goes back to technology (not
<BR>>computers-but modems speeds, bandwidth,etc).
<BR>>
<BR>>Also look at what you pay a month for data compared to me. Subtract
the
<BR>>difference and see if those few days where volume slows things down
and
<BR>>you can't trade is more or less than the amount of money you might
make
<BR>>or lose in the market those few days.
<BR>>
<BR>>I have found that the quote window is almost identical to Datek on
a
<BR>>normal day for giving bid and ask. The regionals can be a bit slower.
<BR>>The ticker window with the last price and volume helps me and pretty
<BR>>much keeps up on heavy volume days. (too a point.) This will give
me
<BR>>direction-heck with the bid and ask. I think the big thing is to build
a
<BR>>system of in-expensive backups. Aside from the charts in Excel, the
DDE
<BR>>link can be to another server. Different from the one that PCQuote
real
<BR>>time uses. Hence another backup.
<BR>>
<BR>>Yes CNBC is faster on the market indexes. But I am more concerned
about
<BR>>the general direction. Most stocks don't turn on a dime if the DJIA
or
<BR>>NASDAQ pulls back. Most traders are trained to wait until some trigger
<BR>>occurs. SO the small delay is irrelevant since it might look like
the
<BR>>top or the bottom for me but in actuality the market movers were waiting
<BR>>for another signal. Big deal I am looking for patterns and how my
stock
<BR>>reacts to the major indices. (Note I am charting the indexes with
the
<BR>>DDE link to Excel.)
<BR>>The big thing that Excel gives me is the ability to use the data (market
<BR>>breadth & indexes) on another computer that is networked. Because
the
<BR>>file is saved it is slightly delayed by 20 seconds plus whatever delay
<BR>>there is from CNBC.
<BR>>
<BR>>I don't play options so I can't comment on them. But what it sounds
like
<BR>>you really need is a good inexpensive backup to get option quotes.
Even
<BR>>your broker should be able to give a current quote prior to your order.
<BR>>(Like I use Datek, if all else fails.)
<BR>>Another option would be to use Excel to bring in the option prices
and
<BR>>then do some experimenting to see if that might help.
<BR>>
<BR>>Dick if you plan to keep PCQuote, I am willing to try to share ideas
<BR>>about how to create backups for some of the problems we run into.
If you
<BR>>also think you would use Excel DDE link, I'd be willing to send you
some
<BR>>files.
<BR>>I will admit that Excel isn't the best. But I am patiently waiting
for
<BR>>MS RT and hoping that PCQuote will be a vendor.
<BR>>
<BR>>Again with proper backups and keeping thing in perspective I think
<BR>>PCQuote is the best around for the $75/month. I have seen an improvement
<BR>>in their service and they have improved their customer service. For
me,
<BR>>as long as they continue to make an effort to make improvements in
their
<BR>>service, they are worth staying loyal to.
<BR>>
<BR>>Well I had better go.
<BR>>Again thanks for sending the post. What ever you decide to do I hope
you
<BR>>get the problem resolved. It is annoying.
<BR>>
<BR>>Harley
<BR>>
<BR>>Dick wrote:
<BR>>
<BR>>> Hi Harley,
<BR>>>
<BR>>> I've had PC Quotes for about a year now, and it's worked great during
<BR>>> the
<BR>>> "bull" months (of course, it's not really need when everything's
going
<BR>>>
<BR>>> up)...The increasing market volume has really magnified it's bandwidth
<BR>>>
<BR>>> weakness though, and although we've been given those little e-mail
<BR>>> assurances that the server farm is up and running, the times when
you
<BR>>> need
<BR>>> accurate quotes the most, finds the data feed sadly lacking.
<BR>>>
<BR>>> (I'm going to explain a little more, because this is probably a
topic
<BR>>> of
<BR>>> interest to more than a few here, and I can probably save them money
<BR>>> by
<BR>>> relating my missteps through the real-time data minefield. <g>)
<BR>>>
<BR>>> As you know, the least risky time to enter a buy order on a big
down
<BR>>> day is
<BR>>> at the first big "trough" when the panic (read: volume) peaks as
the
<BR>>> price
<BR>>> gaps down at the open. This usually occurs during the first 30-45
<BR>>> minutes of
<BR>>> the trading day, and if you enable the S&P futures ($55 extra
exchange
<BR>>> fee)
<BR>>> it usually gives you the leading edge of market direction. (I don't
<BR>>> like to
<BR>>> use the PREM or $sps (S&P futures premium to the cash market)
alone,
<BR>>> because
<BR>>> it only gives you the static picture, and doesn't show the "speed"
of
<BR>>> the
<BR>>> peaks and valleys like the chart does.) But at the bottom (heaviest
<BR>>> volume)
<BR>>> the feed slows due the bandwidth, and you had better not depend
on it
<BR>>> for
<BR>>> timing buys.
<BR>>>
<BR>>> If you enable Nasdaq Level 2 ($50 pc quote/$50 exchange fee) you
can
<BR>>> see the
<BR>>> size and depth of the inside market, as well as the identity of
the
<BR>>> sellers/buyers. This is very useful too, IF it all works and you
get
<BR>>> the
<BR>>> information promptly and in the right order.
<BR>>>
<BR>>> Now the problem.......PC Quote Nasdaq L2 is frequently *behind*
the
<BR>>> time and
<BR>>> sales list ! And as you've probably noticed, the PCQ version of
the
<BR>>> Dow,
<BR>>> S&P, and Nasdaq figures shown on CNBC are several seconds behind,
even
<BR>>> on a
<BR>>> LIGHT trading day.
<BR>>>
<BR>>> I can't tell you how many times I've place limit orders on Philly
<BR>>> exchange
<BR>>> options (i.e. Dell calls/puts) and not gotten filled, simply because
<BR>>> the
<BR>>> darnnit PCQ turbo options ($50 extra) is dragging the market too.
How
<BR>>> do I
<BR>>> know ? The broker I used to use for options would put me hold while
<BR>>> placing
<BR>>> the order, and they had a live mike on the floor (for on-hold
<BR>>> customers
<BR>>> entertainment I guess <g>). Even though I'd place a limit at
the
<BR>>> "natural"
<BR>>> bid or ask, I still wouldn't get filled because the prices had moved
<BR>>> so far
<BR>>> while the PCQ version of it was waaayyyyyyyy off, even on lighter
days
<BR>>> !
<BR>>>
<BR>>> And the reason I mention the Philly exchange in particular, is that
<BR>>> it's
<BR>>> suicide to place a market order on the Philly, unless you like paying
<BR>>> the
<BR>>> highest price printed that DAY........guaranteed ! I eventually
went
<BR>>> to
<BR>>> placing RAES market orders on the other exchanges, but the turbo
<BR>>> options
<BR>>> package is anything but "turbo".
<BR>>>
<BR>>> I naturally have called PCQ tech support, and inquired what the
<BR>>> problem
<BR>>> might be, and they told me it was my internet connection or
<BR>>> computer..........Soooooo, after a blindingly dull sampling of every
<BR>>> ISP
<BR>>> available, I finally got cable modem, and after wondering if my
<BR>>> Pentium 133
<BR>>> was the bottleneck, I finally bought a Pentium II 300 with AGP
<BR>>> graphics and
<BR>>> 128 meg (as discussed earlier this year)
<BR>>>
<BR>>> Nope. That wasn't the problem. It's still slow to update.
<BR>>>
<BR>>> (Just for reference, I downloaded the 13+ meg MS Internet Explorer
4
<BR>>> update
<BR>>> yesterday from the MS Redmond Washington high bandwith site, in
<BR>>> ........ahem.......6 minutes ?) I don't think my ISP is the problem.
<BR>>>
<BR>>> Sorry about the long post, but I think it's important to realize
that
<BR>>> a lot
<BR>>> of the up and down intraday swings in recent months are generated
by
<BR>>> notoriously fickle momentum players and to be "late" is to be "dead",
<BR>>> if you
<BR>>> catch my drift.
<BR>>>
<BR>>> BTW, Datek executions are MUCH faster with cable modem.........like
<BR>>> you
<BR>>> said, they seem to get real time quotes out faster than PCQ........I'm
<BR>>> not
<BR>>> sure I can get DTN or BMI out here (because they strip data on local
<BR>>> cable
<BR>>> channels) but I think I'm going to go without the Nasdaq L2 (which
<BR>>> they
<BR>>> don't offer) and just get the fastest prices I can find.
<BR>>>
<BR>>> Dick
<BR>>>
<BR>>> PS. The Excel DDE linking is slower than the Real Tick III
<BR>>> charting.....I
<BR>>> don't know if short-term matters to you, but I try to keep the saying
<BR>>> in
<BR>>> mind, "Sell when you can, not when you have to."
<BR>>> On a down day, I can usually break even or even show a small profit
by
<BR>>>
<BR>>> buying at the right place on the troughs and being ready to sell
at
<BR>>> the
<BR>>> peaks. If it turns out to be a turnaround day (like yesterday) you
can
<BR>>> do
<BR>>> pretty well if you correctly judge the capitulation point (like
-269
<BR>>> <g>)
<BR>>> and buy into the mess.
<BR>>> But for that, you need REAL real-time data.
<BR>>>
<BR>>> From: Harley Meyer <meyer@xxxxxxxxxxx>
<BR>>> To: Dick <dick@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
<BR>>> Cc: metastock-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<metastock-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
<BR>>> Date: Friday, December 19, 1997 9:47 PM
<BR>>> Subject: Re: Downloader Question
<BR>>>
<BR>>> >Hello Dick,
<BR>>> >
<BR>>> >I too have PCQuote and I have felt that they are actually getting
<BR>>> >better. Now that they have the server farm. I however in my infinite
<BR>>> >wisdom have chosen the $75/month service. I can do more in Excel
than
<BR>>>
<BR>>> >what I could do with the canned charting program they offer for
<BR>>> >$200+/month.
<BR>>> >As far as the quotes they do get backed up some times. If it gets
<BR>>> real
<BR>>> >bad I'll check the quotes on Datek. Since Datek is very good when
it
<BR>>> >comes to the big volume days I have a good free backup. But for
the
<BR>>> most
<BR>>> >part I have felt that they are making improvements in this area
as
<BR>>> well.
<BR>>> >
<BR>>> >Some areas that can add to this problem is how far off the internet
<BR>>> back
<BR>>> >bone you are. The others are phone line quality, modem speed, memory
<BR>>> and
<BR>>> >CPU.
<BR>>> >
<BR>>> >Not to turn this into a debate about PCQuote. My guess is that
since
<BR>>> you
<BR>>> >are paying for the top service you are expecting better service.
<BR>>> While
<BR>>> >me paying for the $75/month service I am a little more tolerant.
For
<BR>>> >$75/month it is probable the best service. And you know (I hope
you
<BR>>> >know) that it is faster than Signal and a few other ones out in
the
<BR>>> >market.
<BR>>> >
<BR>>> >Sorry to hear you are having trouble and I hope you get them worked
<BR>>> out.
<BR>>> >
<BR>>> >Harley
<BR>>> >
<BR>>> >
<BR>>> >Dick wrote:
<BR>>> >
<BR>>> >> Richard, do you use the paid real-time version of quotes plus,
or
<BR>>> do
<BR>>> >> you
<BR>>> >> just use the free version on the web ? I've got PC Quote via
the
<BR>>> >> internet
<BR>>> >> (because the satellite footprint doesn't extend out here, but
it's
<BR>>> NOT
<BR>>> >> real
<BR>>> >> time, even though it costs 3-400/month. In fact, I wouldn't
<BR>>> recommend
<BR>>> >> PC
<BR>>> >> Quote internet to my worst enemy, even if I had one !<g>
<BR>>> >>
<BR>>> >> On heavy volume days like today, it is suicide to trade the PC
Q
<BR>>> >> internet
<BR>>> >> version data (it literally stopped dead today at the bottom)
<BR>>> >>
<BR>>> >> Does anyone have a more robust real-time system that costs
<BR>>> something
<BR>>> >> south
<BR>>> >> of a bloomberg machine ?
<BR>>> >>
<BR>>> >> Dick
<BR>>> >> -----Original Message-----
<BR>>> >> From: Richard Estes <restes@xxxxxxxxx>
<BR>>> >> To: vitaly@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<vitaly@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>;
<BR>>> chipa@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<BR>>> >>
<BR>>> >> <chipa@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
<BR>>> >> Cc: metastock-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<metastock-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
<BR>>> >> Date: Friday, December 19, 1997 9:10 AM
<BR>>> >> Subject: Re: Downloader Question
<BR>>> >>
<BR>>> >> >Quote plus and TC2000 PRO
<BR>>> >> >Richard Estes
<BR>>> >> >-----Original Message-----
<BR>>> >> >From: Vitaly Larichev <vitaly@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
<BR>>> >> >To: chipa@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<chipa@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
<BR>>> >> >Cc: metastock-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<metastock-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
<BR>>> >> >Date: Friday, December 19, 1997 11:59 AM
<BR>>> >> >Subject: Re: Downloader Question
<BR>>> >> >
<BR>>> >> >
<BR>>> >> >>Chip Anderson wrote:
<BR>>> >> >>
<BR>>> >> >>> ... Does anyone else use a data provider that automatically
<BR>>> >> updates
<BR>>> >> >>> symbols for them? ...
<BR>>> >> >>
<BR>>> >> >>QPlus.
<BR>>> >> >> Cheers, Vitaly
<BR>>> >> >>
<BR>>> >> >
<BR>>> >
<BR>>> >
<BR>>> >
<BR>>
<BR>>
<BR>></BLOCKQUOTE>
</HTML>
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Subject: Index Data
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Status:
Hello all;
I was wondering if anybody could recommend a source to research the
individual stocks that make up the many indexes.
All comments would be appreciated.
Seasons Greetings,
Pejman Hamidi
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