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Your math is right on, Dan. However,
I don't know if anyone in his right mind would ever trade a stock whose
volatility was 10% (as in your $10 stock example). And using a 1-ATR
stop on a $50 stock is gutsy, too, requiring total confidence in the
system being used  where the pricing is close to noise level. I
understand you are only offering this as an example, but it does make
the point well.  
 
Al Venosa 
 
danielwardadams wrote: 
   
If the $50 stock always ranges between 49 and 51, it has an ATR of 2.  
Likewise if the $10 stock always ranges between 9 and 11, it also has  
an ATR of 2 (although it has a much higher beta).  
   
So with volatility based position sizing where you use 1 ATR as your  
stop, if you are willing to risk 2% of a $100,000 portfolio ($2000),  
you could buy 1000 shares of either stock. The difference is one half  
your capital ($50,000) is tied up in one case and only one tenth  
($10,000) in the other. 
   
If anybody has a different interpretation, jump in (please). 
   
Dan 
   
--- In amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "Pal Anand" <palsanand@xxxx>
wrote: 
>  
> ATR shows volatility in absolute terms (cannot predict direction
or  
> duration, only activity levels), so, lower price stocks will have  
> lower ATR levels than higher price stocks.  A $10 stock would have
   
a  
> much lower ATR value than a $50 stock, hence, one would end up  
buying  
> more shares of the $10 stock than the $50 stock. 
>  
> rgds, Pal 
> --- In amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "danielwardadams"  
> <danielwardadams@xxxx> wrote: 
> >  
> > I was gone most of the day so didn't have a chance to keep up
   
with  
> > the posts. 
> >  
> > I agree that the results are the opposite of what one would  
expect.  
> I  
> > think in the cases you cite, the formulas should be  
> 100,000*Risk/ATR.  
> > So if your risk tolerance is 2% and the ATR is 2, the
position  
size  
> =  
> > 100,000*.02/2 = 2000/2 = 1000 where the 1000 is shares of
stock  
and  
> > is independent of the price of the stock, i.e., you can buy
1000  
> > shares of ANY priced stock that has an ATR of 2 and your risk
   
would  
> > be the same. In the case of the $50 stock, your position
equity  
> would  
> > be $50*1000 = $50,000 when ATR=2. Similarly, you could buy  
> > twice (not half) as much of the stock when ATR=1. 
> >  
> > Although the position sizing being independent of the price
of  
the  
> > stock seems counterintuitive, I just reread the chapter in
Van  
> > Tharp's book on this ("Trade Your Way to Financial Freedom")
and  
I  
> > think that's the way it's supposed to be. 
> >  
> > I'm not sure what this means for our 20% maximum position
equity  
> > allocation (to achieve diversification). 
> >  
> > Dan 
> >  
> >  
> > --- In amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, Al Venosa
<advenosa@xxxx> wrote: 
> > > Ed: 
> > >  
> > > Your formula doesn't make much sense to me. The term  
stoploss/ref 
> > (C,-1)  
> > > is simply the volatility of the stock, expressed as a
fraction  
of  
> > the  
> > > price, times a multiplier. Thus, for a $50 stock whose
ATR is,  
> say,  
> > 2  
> > > (highly volatile), and if you are using a multiplier of
2 with  
an  
> > equity  
> > > of $100 K, then your positionsize statement specifies
that the  
> > position  
> > > size of the trade will be only $8,000 (100,000 * 4/50).
For a  
> less  
> > > volatile stock (one whose ATR is only 1), then your  
positionsize  
> > would  
> > > be only $4,000. So, you are allocating less money for
less  
> volatile  
> > > stocks and more money for more volatile stocks, and the
amount  
> > allocated  
> > > in each case is tiny relative to your equity. This is
the  
> opposite  
> > of  
> > > what volatility-based trading is all about. Did you
leave  
> something  
> > out? 
> > >  
> > > Al Venosa 
> > >  
> > > ed nl wrote: 
> > >  
> > > > well I just mentioned this because the range is
rather  
narrow.   
> > When  
> > > > testing this MM stuff on my system I noticed that
it behaved  
> very  
> > poor  
> > > > especially between 1998 and 2001. This is exactly
the period  
> the  
> > > > markets were very volatile. SInce volatility
reduces the  
> position  
> > > > size  my system hardly invested any money. 
> > > >   
> > > > I tried giving risky trades more weight using (not
sure if  
this  
> > is  
> > > > correct but it does approximately what I intended): 
> > > >   
> > > > *PositionSize* = -100 * (stopLoss / Ref(*C*,-1)); 
> > > > this as I expected gives a better result than just
using a  
> > constant  
> > > > percentage over the last 3 year and also better
than the  
> correct  
> > MM  
> > > > approach. Between 1998 and 2001 however it performs
worse,  
> > suffering  
> > > > when the market goes crazy. 
> > > >   
> > > > rgds, Ed 
> > > >   
> > > >   
> > > > 
> > > >     ----- Original Message ----- 
> > > >     *From:* danielwardadams
<mailto:danielwardadams@xxxx> 
> > > >     *To:* amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx  
> > <mailto:amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> 
> > > >     *Sent:* Sunday, December 12, 2004 4:06 PM 
> > > >     *Subject:* [amibroker] Re: PositionSize /
Capital 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > >     I love it. This also helps avoid the tiny
positions  
> somebody  
> > (Al?) 
> > > >     mentioned yesterday (and I've experienced
also). But why  
do  
> > you say 
> > > >     it will usually probably use the 10 or 20%
sized  
positions?  
> > Shouldn't 
> > > >     that mean you're setting your risk parameter  
> unrealistically  
> > low? 
> > > > 
> > > >     --- In amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
> > > >     <mailto:amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, "ed
nl" <ed2000nl@x 
> > > >     <mailto:ed2000nl@x>...> wrote: 
> > > >     > This way you can use a range: Maximum 20%
minimum 10%  
of  
> > equity: 
> > > >     > 
> > > >     > rsk = -2; // 2% 
> > > >     > PositionSize = Min(-10,Max(-20,rsk *
Ref(C,-1) /  
> stopLoss)); 
> > > >     > 
> > > >     > In practice it most of the time it
probably either uses  
> 10%  
> > or 20%. 
> > > >     > 
> > > >     > Ed 
> > > >     > 
> > > >     > 
> > > >     > 
> > > >     >   ----- Original Message ----- 
> > > >     >   From: danielwardadams 
> > > >     >   To: amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
> > > >     >   Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 3:40 PM 
> > > >     >   Subject: [amibroker] Re: PositionSize /
Capital 
> > > >     > 
> > > >     > 
> > > >     > 
> > > >     >   Al & Ed, 
> > > >     >   This is exactly where I ended up
yesterday (hours  
after  
> > my post). 
> > > >     >   When I tried it, though, I always ended
up taking the  
> 20% 
> > > >     positions 
> > > >     >   rather than those defined by my risk.
Thinking it  
> wasn't  
> > working, 
> > > >     I 
> > > >     >   gave up and went to bed. 
> > > >     > 
> > > >     >   But since someone else thinks this
should work,  
> obviously  
> > I need 
> > > >     to 
> > > >     >   play with it some more. 
> > > >     > 
> > > >     >   Dan 
> > > >     > 
> > > >     >   --- In amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "ed
nl"  
> <ed2000nl@xxxx>  
> > wrote: 
> > > >     >   > Al, 
> > > >     >   > 
> > > >     >   > about the part:   "Your suggestion
to limit  
> > positionsize not to 
> > > >     >   exceed any more than 20% of equity may
be the  
solution  
> > since it 
> > > >     goes 
> > > >     >   hand in hand with the philosophy of
money management.  
> > That is, do 
> > > >     not 
> > > >     >   allow any one position to exceed, say,
10 or 15  
percent  
> > of your 
> > > >     >   equity. The Turtles did that, and I
think lots of  
> traders  
> > do 
> > > >     that, 
> > > >     >   too. So, I see nothing wrong with that.
Have you  
coded  
> > this in 
> > > >     AFL" 
> > > >     >   > 
> > > >     >   > I think you can solve this using: 
> > > >     >   > 
> > > >     >   > rsk = -2; // 2% 
> > > >     >   > PositionSize = Max(-20,rsk *
Ref(C,-1) / stopLoss); 
> > > >     >   > 
> > > >     >   > now it will never use more than 20%
of equity. 
> > > >     >   > 
> > > >     >   > About the minimum number of trades
I don't know. In  
> my  
> > system 
> > > >     that 
> > > >     >   would be impossible because sometimes
good entries  
just  
> > dry up 
> > > >     and I 
> > > >     >   can't find even find 5. 
> > > >     >   > 
> > > >     >   > rgds, Ed 
> > > >     >   > 
> > > >     >   >   ----- Original Message ----- 
> > > >     >   >   From: Al Venosa 
> > > >     >   >   To: amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
> > > >     >   >   Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004
3:11 PM 
> > > >     >   >   Subject: Re: [amibroker] Re:
PositionSize /  
Capital 
> > > >     >   > 
> > > >     >   > 
> > > >     >   >   Dan: 
> > > >     >   > 
> > > >     >   >   Thanks for the ideas. You're not
rambling; you're  
> > thinking, 
> > > >     and 
> > > >     >   this discussion is healthy. Good ideas
may stem from  
the 
> > > >     discussion, 
> > > >     >   so by all means, keep posting. 
> > > >     >   > 
> > > >     >   >   I don't think you need a new
built-in function  
> called  
> > MinPos. 
> > > >     >   Maybe TJ came up with a solution the
other day by  
> > suggesting you 
> > > >     set 
> > > >     >   the max open positions to some large
value like 10 of  
> 15,  
> > even 
> > > >     though 
> > > >     >   you plan to take on no more than 5 at
any time. So,  
if  
> > you don't 
> > > >     use 
> > > >     >   up all your equity using
volatility-based  
> positionsizing,  
> > you 
> > > >     might 
> > > >     >   add on new positions with this approach.
I haven't  
> tested  
> > this 
> > > >     idea 
> > > >     >   yet, but I will. The problem occurs when
the opposite  
> > happens, 
> > > >     >   namely, all your equity is used up
before you are  
able  
> to  
> > add 
> > > >     your 
> > > >     >   4th and 5th positions. Your suggestion
to limit  
> > positionsize not 
> > > >     to 
> > > >     >   exceed any more than 20% of equity may
be the  
solution  
> > since it 
> > > >     goes 
> > > >     >   hand in hand with the philosophy of
money management.  
> > That is, do 
> > > >     not 
> > > >     >   allow any one position to exceed, say,
10 or 15  
percent  
> > of your 
> > > >     >   equity. The Turtles did that, and I
think lots of  
> traders  
> > do 
> > > >     that, 
> > > >     >   too. So, I see nothing wrong with that.
Have you  
coded  
> > this in 
> > > >     AFL? 
> > > >     >   I'm like Yuki: good with concepts buy
lousy with  
> creative 
> > > >     >   programming. 
> > > >     >   > 
> > > >     >   >   Al Venosa 
> > > >     >   > 
> > > >     >   >   danielwardadams wrote: 
> > > >     >   > 
> > > >     >   > 
> > > >     >   >     After thinking about this some
more, I think  
all  
> > I've 
> > > >     described 
> > > >     >   is 
> > > >     >   >     what could be accomplished with
two more built- 
in 
> > > >     variables. 
> > > >     >   MinPos 
> > > >     >   >     could say you want no less than
some minimum  
> number  
> > of 
> > > >     >   positions (5 
> > > >     >   >     in my example) and
MaxPositionSize could say  
you  
> > want to 
> > > >     >   allocate no 
> > > >     >   >     more than X% of capital to any
one position  
(20%  
> in  
> > my 
> > > >     example). 
> > > >     >   > 
> > > >     >   >     Within these constraints, your
actual position  
> > sizing 
> > > >     methond 
> > > >     >   could 
> > > >     >   >     be anything you want. 
> > > >     >   > 
> > > >     >   >     I'm probably rambling ......... 
> > > >     >   > 
> > > >     >   >     Dan 
> > > >     >   > 
> > > >     >   >     --- In  
> amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "danielwardadams" 
> > > >     >   >     <danielwardadams@xxxx>
wrote: 
> > > >     >   >     > 
> > > >     >   >     > Al & Anthony, 
> > > >     >   >     > I've also seen the lower
returns for  
volatility  
> > based 
> > > >     versus 
> > > >     >   equal 
> > > >     >   >     > equity position sizing in
the past and didn't  
> > know what 
> > > >     to do 
> > > >     >   about 
> > > >     >   >     > it (assuming I wanted more
positions for more 
> > > >     >   diversification). 
> > > >     >   >     > 
> > > >     >   >     > I'm not sure how one would
code it in .AFL,  
but  
> > would the 
> > > >     >   following 
> > > >     >   >     > represent a reasonable
compromise? 
> > > >     >   >     > 
> > > >     >   >     > (1) Start with an equal
equity based model  
> based  
> > on, 
> > > >     say,  5 
> > > >     >   >     > positions (position size =
-20). So each part  
> of  
> > the pie 
> > > >     >   equals 20% 
> > > >     >   >     > of total equity. 
> > > >     >   >     > (2) Determine actual
position size within  
each  
> > piece of 
> > > >     the 
> > > >     >   pie 
> > > >     >   >     based 
> > > >     >   >     > on volatility based
sizing. So, depending on  
> your  
> > risk 
> > > >     >   parameter, 
> > > >     >   >     one 
> > > >     >   >     > might use only 17% of one
piece of the pie,  
13%  
> of 
> > > >     another 
> > > >     >   piece, 
> > > >     >   >     and 
> > > >     >   >     > 20%, 8%, and 11% of the
other pieces. 
> > > >     >   >     > (3) Sum the used portions
of the pie (in this  
> case 
> > > >     >   17+13+20+8+11 = 
> > > >     >   >     > 69%) and see what you have
left. 31% in case. 
> > > >     >   >     > (4) Allocate the remaining
cash according to  
> the  
> > equal 
> > > >     equity 
> > > >     >   >     model. 
> > > >     >   >     > This means you get one
more 20% piece of pie  
> and  
> > only 
> > > >     have 
> > > >     >   11% cash 
> > > >     >   >     > remaining. 
> > > >     >   >     > (5) Apply the above using
your ATR based  
> position  
> > sizing 
> > > >     >   >     recursively 
> > > >     >   >     > until your cash is
minimized. So if you only  
> are  
> > able to 
> > > >     use 
> > > >     >   9% of 
> > > >     >   >     > the piece of pie left in
(4) you take the 11%  
> > left from 
> > > >     that 
> > > >     >   piece 
> > > >     >   >     > plus the 11% cash and you
have 22% -- enough  
> for  
> > another 
> > > >     >   position. 
> > > >     >   >     So 
> > > >     >   >     > in this case you end up
with 7 positions and  
> only  
> > 2% left 
> > > >     in 
> > > >     >   cash. 
> > > >     >   >     > So your cash is minimized
and all your  
> positions  
> > adhere 
> > > >     to 
> > > >     >   the ATR 
> > > >     >   >     > based position sizing. 
> > > >     >   >     > 
> > > >     >   >     > Like I say, I have no idea
how to code it but  
> > intuitively 
> > > >     it 
> > > >     >   makes 
> > > >     >   >     > sense to me. 
> > > >     >   >     > 
> > > >     >   >     > Thoughts/comments? 
> > > >     >   >     > 
> > > >     >   >     > Dan 
> > > >     >   >     > 
> > > >     >   >     > (And, yes, I'm sure I'm
not the first person  
to  
> > think of 
> > > >     it 
> > > >     >   so my 
> > > >     >   >     > apologies to those who
have gone before). 
> > > >     >   >     > 
> > > >     >   >     > --- In
amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "Anthony  
> > Faragasso" 
> > > >     >   >     <ajf1111@xxxx> 
> > > >     >   >     > wrote: 
> > > >     >   >     > > Hello Al, 
> > > >     >   >     > > 
> > > >     >   >     > > You stated: 
> > > >     >   >     > > 
> > > >     >   >     > > "the lower the
volatility, the lower the  
risk  
> > and 
> > > >     >   therefore, the 
> > > >     >   >     > smaller the positionsize
for that stock. " 
> > > >     >   >     > > 
> > > >     >   >     > > Is this a correct
assumption ? ...Would you  
> > want a 
> > > >     larger 
> > > >     >   >     > positionsize on a less
risk position , and a  
> > smaller 
> > > >     position 
> > > >     >   on a 
> > > >     >   >     > more volatile one ? 
> > > >     >   >     > > 
> > > >     >   >     > > Anthony 
> > > >     >   >     > >   ----- Original
Message ----- 
> > > >     >   >     > >   From: Al Venosa 
> > > >     >   >     > >   To:
amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
> > > >     >   >     > >   Sent: Saturday,
December 11, 2004 7:53 AM 
> > > >     >   >     > >   Subject: Re:
[amibroker] PositionSize /  
> > Capital 
> > > >     >   >     > > 
> > > >     >   >     > > 
> > > >     >   >     > >   Ed, 
> > > >     >   >     > > 
> > > >     >   >     > >   I, too, have
confirmed many times with  
> > backtesting 
> > > >     what 
> > > >     >   you 
> > > >     >   >     > report, viz,, that
positionsize = -x gives  
> better 
> > > >     performance 
> > > >     >   >     results 
> > > >     >   >     > than using
volatility-based MM  
positionsizing.  
> > The non-MM 
> > > >     >   code I've 
> > > >     >   >     > used in the past is: 
> > > >     >   >     > > 
> > > >     >   >     > >   posqty =
Optimize("posqty",5,2,10,1); //  
> no.  
> > of 
> > > >     stocks 
> > > >     >   active 
> > > >     >   >     at 
> > > >     >   >     > any given time 
> > > >     >   >     > >   PositionSize =
-100/posqty; //equal  
equity  
> > model 
> > > >     >   >     > > 
> > > >     >   >     > >   I think I know what
the problem is, but I  
> > have not as 
> > > >     yet 
> > > >     >   >     figured 
> > > >     >   >     > out how to solve the
problem with AFL. If you  
> use  
> > the MM- 
> > > >     >   based 
> > > >     >   >     > positionsize statement as
we have discussed  
> (equal 
> > > >     volatility 
> > > >     >   >     model), 
> > > >     >   >     > i.e., PositionSize = -1 *
C/StopAmt, and  
> examine  
> > the 
> > > >     >   tradelist, you 
> > > >     >   >     > will likely discover that,
often, not all 5  
> > stocks are 
> > > >     active 
> > > >     >   all 
> > > >     >   >     the 
> > > >     >   >     > time. In other words,
either you have idle  
> capital 
> > > >     earning 
> > > >     >   nothing 
> > > >     >   >     or 
> > > >     >   >     > you have fewer active
stocks than you want.  
Why  
> > is this? 
> > > >     >   Because 
> > > >     >   >     some 
> > > >     >   >     > stocks, which might not be
as volatilie as  
> > others, use up 
> > > >     >   more of 
> > > >     >   >     > your capital to initiate a
position than a  
more  
> > volatile 
> > > >     >   stock. 
> > > >     >   >     > Consequently, your capital
is used up before  
> you  
> > have a 
> > > >     >   chance to 
> > > >     >   >     > enter into your 4th or 5th
stock. Instead of  
> > having 5 
> > > >     open 
> > > >     >   >     positions, 
> > > >     >   >     > you might only have 3
because of this.  
Checking 
> > > >     positionsize 
> > > >     >   >     > shrinking doesn't help
because you'll  
discover  
> > you might 
> > > >     have 
> > > >     >   tiny 
> > > >     >   >     > positions in your 5th
stock. The fewer stocks  
> you  
> > have, 
> > > >     the 
> > > >     >   less 
> > > >     >   >     > diversified you are, and
therefore the more  
> risky  
> > your 
> > > >     >   portfolio. 
> > > >     >   >     The 
> > > >     >   >     > more risk, the higher the
DDs. This problem  
> > cannot happen 
> > > >     >   with the 
> > > >     >   >     > equal equity model since
all positions are  
> equal  
> > in size, 
> > > >     by 
> > > >     >   >     > definition. 
> > > >     >   >     > > 
> > > >     >   >     > >   One possible way
around this might be to  
> > increase 
> > > >     your 
> > > >     >   margin 
> > > >     >   >     so 
> > > >     >   >     > that equity is expanded
enough to allow full  
> > funding of 
> > > >     all 
> > > >     >   >     > positions. But, again,
this also increases  
your  
> > risk. 
> > > >     Another 
> > > >     >   way 
> > > >     >   >     > might be dynamically
setting your risk to fit  
> the 
> > > >     volatility 
> > > >     >   of 
> > > >     >   >     each 
> > > >     >   >     > stock individually (the
lower the volatility,  
> the  
> > lower 
> > > >     the 
> > > >     >   risk 
> > > >     >   >     and 
> > > >     >   >     > therefore, the smaller the
positionsize for  
> that  
> > stock). 
> > > >     >   However, 
> > > >     >   >     > this changes your model so
that you no longer  
> > have equal 
> > > >     >   >     > volatility/equal risk
(getting closer to the  
> > equal equity 
> > > >     >   model). 
> > > >     >   >     So, 
> > > >     >   >     > the problem remains
unsolved for the moment.  
I  
> > have not 
> > > >     had 
> > > >     >   time to 
> > > >     >   >     > devote to cracking this
problem yet, but some  
> day  
> > I hope 
> > > >     to 
> > > >     >   do 
> > > >     >   >     this. 
> > > >     >   >     > If you have any ideas, I'm
all ears. 
> > > >     >   >     > > 
> > > >     >   >     > >   Al Venosa 
> > > >     >   >     > > 
> > > >     >   >     > > 
> > > >     >   >     > >   ed nl wrote: 
> > > >     >   >     > >     Thanks for your
effort Al. It is very  
> clear, 
> > > >     >   >     > > 
> > > >     >   >     > >     In one of my
earlier posts I posted 
> > > >     >   >     > > 
> > > >     >   >     > >     // money
management block 
> > > >     >   >     > >     stopLoss =
Ref(bbb*ATR(20),-1); 
> > > >     >   >     > >     // trade risk 
> > > >     >   >     > >     tr =
IIf(Buy,(stopLoss /  
> > BuyPrice),stopLoss / 
> > > >     >   (ShortPrice + 
> > > >     >   >     > stopLoss)); 
> > > >     >   >     > >     //
renormalisation coefficient 
> > > >     >   >     > >     rc = 0.02 / tr; 
> > > >     >   >     > >     // positionsize 
> > > >     >   >     > >     PositionSize = rc
* -100 
> > > >     >   >     > > 
> > > >     >   >     > > 
> > > >     >   >     > >     it actually gives
the same result as  
your: 
> > > >     >   >     > >     PositionSize =
-2.0 * IIf 
> > > >     (Buy,BuyPrice,ShortPrice) / 
> > > >     >   stopLoss 
> > > >     >   >     > >     except for short
positions. Exact the  
> same  
> > it would 
> > > >     be 
> > > >     >   if I 
> > > >     >   >     > use: tr =
IIf(Buy,(stopLoss /  
> BuyPrice),stopLoss / 
> > > >     >   (ShortPrice)); 
> > > >     >   >     > > 
> > > >     >   >     > >     Unfortunatelly I
do not get better  
> results  
> > this 
> > > >     way. 
> > > >     >   Using 
> > > >     >   >     just 
> > > >     >   >     > a simple PositionSize =
-10 still gives  
> somewhat  
> > better 
> > > >     >   results. 
> > > >     >   >     > > 
> > > >     >   >     > > 
> > > >     >   >     > > 
> > > >     >   >     > >     rgds, Ed 
> > > >     >   >     > > 
> > > >     >   >     > > 
> > > >     >   >     > >       ----- Original
Message ----- 
> > > >     >   >     > >       From: Al Venosa 
> > > >     >   >     > >       To:
amibroker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
> > > >     >   >     > >       Sent: Saturday,
December 11, 2004  
4:19  
> AM 
> > > >     >   >     > >       Subject: Re:
[amibroker]  
PositionSize /  
> > Capital 
> > > >     >   >     > > 
> > > >     >   >     > > 
> > > >     >   >     > >       ed nl wrote: 
> > > >     >   >     > > 
> > > >     >   >     > >         Al, 
> > > >     >   >     > > 
> > > >     >   >     > >         but how do
you implement the risk  
> > factor now? 
> > > >     >   >     > > 
> > > >     >   >     > >         ed 
> > > >     >   >     > >       Ed: 
> > > >     >   >     > > 
> > > >     >   >     > >       Let us suppose
you have established  
> your  
> > risk as 
> > > >     1% 
> > > >     >   (i.e., 
> > > >     >   >     > the maximum you are
willing to lose on a  
> trade).  
> > Let us 
> > > >     also 
> > > >     >   >     suppose 
> > > >     >   >     > your initial equity is
$100,000. So, if the  
> stock  
> > you buy 
> > > >     (or 
> > > >     >   >     short) 
> > > >     >   >     > goes down by the amount
based on your system,  
> you  
> > lose 
> > > >     only 
> > > >     >   $1000, 
> > > >     >   >     > keeping you in the game.
Now, let us say you  
> > defined your 
> > > >     >   >     volatillty- 
> > > >     >   >     > based stop in terms of
2*ATR(20), which you  
> > incorrectly 
> > > >     >   assigned to 
> > > >     >   >     > the variable
TrailStopAmount. I  
> say 'incorrectly'  
> > because 
> > > >     the 
> > > >     >   >     > TrailStop in AB was
designed to mimic the  
> > Chandelier 
> > > >     exit, 
> > > >     >   which is 
> > > >     >   >     > basically a profit target
type of stock (it  
> hangs  
> > down 
> > > >     like a 
> > > >     >   >     > chandelier from the
highest high since the  
> trade  
> > was 
> > > >     >   initiated, if 
> > > >     >   >     > long). I don't think you
want the TrailStop  
to  
> be  
> > your 
> > > >     money 
> > > >     >   >     > management stop. Rather,
the MM stop is the  
max  
> > stoploss, 
> > > >     >   defined 
> > > >     >   >     as: 
> > > >     >   >     > > 
> > > >     >   >     > >       StopAmt =
2*ATR(20); 
> > > >     >   >     > >      
ApplyStop(0,2,StopAmt,1); 
> > > >     >   >     > > 
> > > >     >   >     > >       So, if your
stock declines by 2*ATR 
(20)  
> > from your 
> > > >     >   entry, 
> > > >     >   >     you 
> > > >     >   >     > exit with a 1% loss. Let's
take an example.  
> Stock  
> > A is 
> > > >     >   selling for 
> > > >     >   >     > $40/share. It's ATR(20) is
$1/shr or 2.5% of  
> 40.  
> > Your 
> > > >     stop 
> > > >     >   amount 
> > > >     >   >     is 
> > > >     >   >     > 2*ATR(20), which is
$2/shr. How much stock do  
> you  
> > buy? 
> > > >     You 
> > > >     >   simply 
> > > >     >   >     > divide your risk, $1000,
by 2*1, which is 500  
> > shares. 
> > > >     This 
> > > >     >   amounts 
> > > >     >   >     to 
> > > >     >   >     > an investment of $40/shr *
500 shrs or  
$20,000.  
> > All of 
> > > >     this 
> > > >     >   can be 
> > > >     >   >     > coded in one simple line
of AFL plus the 2  
> lines  
> > above 
> > > >     >   defining the 
> > > >     >   >     > MM stoploss: 
> > > >     >   >     > > 
> > > >     >   >     > >       PositionSize =
-1 * BuyPrice/StopAmt; 
> > > >     >   >     > > 
> > > >     >   >     > >       where -1 is 1%
of current equity  
(0.01  
> *  
> > 100,000 
> > > >     or 
> > > >     >   $1000), 
> > > >     >   >     > BuyPrice = $40/shr, and
StopAmt is 2. Keep in  
> > mind that a 
> > > >     >   negative 
> > > >     >   >     > sign means 1% of CURRENT
equity, which means  
> > compounded 
> > > >     >   equity, not 
> > > >     >   >     > just a constant initial
equity of $100,000.  
If  
> > you carry 
> > > >     >   through 
> > > >     >   >     the 
> > > >     >   >     > above math with your
renormalization  
coefficient 
> > > >     notation, 
> > > >     >   you wind 
> > > >     >   >     > up with the exact same
answer. 
> > > >     >   >     > > 
> > > >     >   >     > >       One more thing.
When you place your  
> order, 
> > > >     assuming 
> > > >     >   you are 
> > > >     >   >     > trading with EOD data, you
do not know what  
the  
> > buyprice 
> > > >     is 
> > > >     >   until 
> > > >     >   >     you 
> > > >     >   >     > buy the stock, which is
the next day. So,  
what  
> > most 
> > > >     traders 
> > > >     >   do is 
> > > >     >   >     > base their positionsize on
the closing price  
of  
> > the night 
> > > >     >   before 
> > > >     >   >     the 
> > > >     >   >     > entry. Therefore, to place
an order in the  
> > evening to be 
> > > >     >   filled in 
> > > >     >   >     > the morning at the open,
your positionsize  
> > statement 
> > > >     would 
> > > >     >   actually 
> > > >     >   >     > be: 
> > > >     >   >     > > 
> > > >     >   >     > >       PositionSize =
-1 * C/StopAmt; 
> > > >     >   >     > > 
> > > >     >   >     > >       where C is the
closing price on the  
> night  
> > before 
> > > >     you 
> > > >     >   buy. 
> > > >     >   >     So, 
> > > >     >   >     > if you use the code
SetTradeDelays(1,1,1,1),  
> then  
> > the 
> > > >     above 
> > > >     >   formula 
> > > >     >   >     > is OK. However, if you use
SetTradeDelays 
> > (0,0,0,0), then 
> > > >     you 
> > > >     >   have 
> > > >     >   >     to 
> > > >     >   >     > ref the C back a day. 
> > > >     >   >     > > 
> > > >     >   >     > >       This is
probably more information  
than  
> > you were 
> > > >     >   asking 
> > > >     >   >     about, 
> > > >     >   >     > but I hope it helps. 
> > > >     >   >     > > 
> > > >     >   >     > >       Cheers, 
> > > >     >   >     > > 
> > > >     >   >     > >       Al Venosa 
> > > >     >   >     > > 
> > > >     >   >     > > 
> > > >     >   >     > > 
> > > >     >   >     > > 
> > > >     >   >     > >   Check AmiBroker web
page at: 
> > > >     >   >     > >   http://www.amibroker.com/ 
> > > >     >   >     > > 
> > > >     >   >     > >   Check group FAQ at: 
> > > >     >   >     > 
> > > >      
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