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<DIV><FONT size=2>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Correct me if I am wrong, for I am no expert in Options, but
it seems that if you sell a call and sell a put, you would want the stock to go
exactly no where to make money so that you kept the money that you received when
you sold and are not required to buy to cover at or before expiration.
These of course are naked.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>If you sell a call you would want the stock to go down, and if
you sell a put you would want the stock to go up.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Kohath</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A
href="mailto:rrraff@xxxxxxxx"; title=rrraff@xxxxxxxx>RAY RAFFURTY</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A href="mailto:pressdl@xxxxxxxxx";
title=pressdl@xxxxxxxxx>pressdl</A> ; <A href="mailto:realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxx";
title=realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxx>RealTraders</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, July 15, 1999 10:53 AM</DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: Puts and Calls</DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Hi Dave.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>What are you using to cover the put? When you write a put you must be
prepared to accept the stock and pay for it at the strike price you wrote.
If you are exercised you have no choice in the matter. With the covered
call you must deliver the stock if you are exercised, but you all ready own it
at a lower price than the strike you wrote.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Technically the only way to cover a put is with another put of an
equal or grater strike price. For margin purposes you can also cover a put
by shorting the stock. So to have both a covered call and a covered put,
you could own the stock, sell the call, short the stock (or buy a put) and sell
the put. Trying to figure if this would ever be profitable, with
commissions, is giving me a headache. Basically it would take an extreme
move in either direction to overcome the coat of setting up such a
position.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>There are times when it makes sense to have a covered call (own the stock
and sell the call) and BUY an out of the money put. This reduces your max.
risk to the difference in the two strikes. For example, recently you could
have bought AT&T (T) at about 57. You could have sold a leap Jan
02 $55 Call for about 15. You would be protected down to 42 (57-15).
At the same time you could have bought a Jan 2000 45 put for 1-1/4.
Basically you have insured your position against loss until expiration in Jan.
2000 when you would have to buy another put if the position was still
open.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Hope this helps.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>
Good luck and good trading,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>
Ray Raffurty</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
pressdl </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
href="mailto:realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxx";
title=realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxx>RealTraders</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, July 14, 1999 9:17
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> OPT: Puts and Calls</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>A question relating to options.. Is it ok
to write covered calls and covered puts on the same equity in my
account (Same expiration date --obviously different prices)?? Does
it ever make sense?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial
size=2>Dave</FONT></DIV></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
</x-html>From ???@??? Thu Jul 15 11:51:55 1999
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Reply-To: "kohath" <kohath@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
From: "kohath" <kohath@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Fw: Puts and Calls
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 12:05:19 -0500
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<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Yes, I believe that brokers that allow you to do these trades
want $100,000+ in your account.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>And you are right, in that going long/short, selling puts,
calls, would be beyond most persons ability to keep track of what the blank was
happening during the trade.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Selling puts/calls is exactly the opposite of buying
puts/calls. Selling gives limited profit, unlimited risk, buying gives
limited risk, unlimited profit. I would imagine there are those who
have lost it all selling options, in only a few hours. Think of it, you
trade 12 times per year, and put lets say $1,500 in your account each trade
(sell). It only takes once during the year for the stock to tank (selling
puts), or rocket up (selling calls) for you to easily lose $10,000+ against
the $1,500 you made. If it happens twice during the year, your goose is
cooked. The odds, in the long run, are stacked against you. I know
someone who sold calls/puts for a while and was making good money on the
OEX. Well, one mistake is all it takes. He sold calls before
greenbacks lowered the Interest rate. Lost a lot of money in the
process. The market makers will not let you cover until the initial run is
done, and when it was announced the interest rates were lowered, the OEX shot up
like a rocket. Calls went from $1.5 to I believe around $22 in an hour or
so. Think about it.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A
href="mailto:rrraff@xxxxxxxx"; title=rrraff@xxxxxxxx>RAY RAFFURTY</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A href="mailto:kohath@xxxxxxxxxxxxx";
title=kohath@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>kohath</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, July 15, 1999 11:57 AM</DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: Puts and Calls</DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Hi kohath,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>You are correct, but what you are describing is an "uncovered straddle
write" and involves 2 transactions, selling one call and selling 1 put. It
is profitable if the underlying moves very little before expiration and has
limited profit potential and unlimited risk.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>What Dave was talking about was a "covered straddle write" involving 4
transactions, long stock, short stock (or long a put), short puts, and
short calls. I believe the costs of establishing such a position would be
prohibitive for the average trader.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>
Good luck and good trading,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>
Ray Raffurty</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
kohath
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A href="mailto:rrraff@xxxxxxxx";
title=rrraff@xxxxxxxx>RAY RAFFURTY</A> ; <A href="mailto:pressdl@xxxxxxxxx";
title=pressdl@xxxxxxxxx>pressdl</A> ; <A
href="mailto:realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxx";
title=realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxx>RealTraders</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, July 15, 1999 12:33
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Puts and Calls</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Correct me if I am wrong, for I am no expert in Options, but
it seems that if you sell a call and sell a put, you would want the stock to
go exactly no where to make money so that you kept the money that you received
when you sold and are not required to buy to cover at or before
expiration. These of course are naked.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>If you sell a call you would want the stock to go down, and
if you sell a put you would want the stock to go up.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Kohath</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A
href="mailto:rrraff@xxxxxxxx"; title=rrraff@xxxxxxxx>RAY RAFFURTY</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A href="mailto:pressdl@xxxxxxxxx";
title=pressdl@xxxxxxxxx>pressdl</A> ; <A
href="mailto:realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxx";
title=realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxx>RealTraders</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, July 15, 1999 10:53 AM</DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: Puts and Calls</DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Hi Dave.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>What are you using to cover the put? When you write a put you must
be prepared to accept the stock and pay for it at the strike price you
wrote. If you are exercised you have no choice in the matter. With
the covered call you must deliver the stock if you are exercised, but you all
ready own it at a lower price than the strike you wrote.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Technically the only way to cover a put is with another put of an
equal or grater strike price. For margin purposes you can also cover a
put by shorting the stock. So to have both a covered call and a covered
put, you could own the stock, sell the call, short the stock (or buy a put)
and sell the put. Trying to figure if this would ever be profitable,
with commissions, is giving me a headache. Basically it would take an
extreme move in either direction to overcome the coat of setting up such a
position.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>There are times when it makes sense to have a covered call (own the stock
and sell the call) and BUY an out of the money put. This reduces your
max. risk to the difference in the two strikes. For example, recently
you could have bought AT&T (T) at about 57. You could have
sold a leap Jan 02 $55 Call for about 15. You would be protected down to
42 (57-15). At the same time you could have bought a Jan 2000 45 put for
1-1/4. Basically you have insured your position against loss until
expiration in Jan. 2000 when you would have to buy another put if the position
was still open.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Hope this helps.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>
Good luck and good
trading,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>
Ray Raffurty</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
pressdl
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
href="mailto:realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxx";
title=realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxx>RealTraders</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, July 14, 1999 9:17
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> OPT: Puts and Calls</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>A question relating to options.. Is it ok
to write covered calls and covered puts on the same equity in my
account (Same expiration date --obviously different prices)??
Does it ever make sense?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial
size=2>Dave</FONT></DIV></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
</x-html>From ???@??? Thu Jul 15 11:52:01 1999
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Reply-To: "kohath" <kohath@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
From: "kohath" <kohath@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxx>, "BrentinUtahsDixie" <brente@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
References: <000d01becedd$eab6dee0$101fbed8@xxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Trend and Lunar Phases
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 12:28:04 -0500
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Yes, and why is that, because the market has been rising at an exponential
rate for the last 8 years (at least). Pull up a monthly chart of the Dow,
and you will see, if the trend continues, the Dow should be at around 20,000
in the next 2 years. Sound ridicules, the chart doesn't lie. If some would
have or did say in 1992 when the Dow was at 3,000 that in 1996 the Dow would
be at 6,000 (double of 3,000), I am sure there probably were some jokes
made. Or how about someone saying in 1996 when the Dow was at 6,000 that in
1999 the Dow would be at 11,000 (almost double). Same thing. The first
time frame was 5 years, the second time frame was 3 years. So is it
unreasonable, foregoing any major disasters, that the Dow should be at
20,000 in the next 2 years. I don't think so. The majority of market
investor/players are bullish (%80). What else would one expect the market
to do. If %80 are buying, and %20 are selling, the street is a one way
road, everyone is looking up, but no one is looking for the semi that may be
headed down the road.
Kohath
----- Original Message -----
From: BrentinUtahsDixie <brente@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: Real Traders Forum <realtraders@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 1999 11:19 AM
Subject: Gen: Trend and Lunar Phases
> Isn't it interesting how it is better to buy the SP with the trend whether
> there is a full or a new moon. Strangely the same thing has worked with
> wheat for the duration of the recent contracts only the trend is down.
> Novice traders are always looking for a chance to go against the trend for
> that big killing. I know I spent enough time trying to do it myself.
>
> Brent
>
>
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